Cellino: "If one judge makes a mistake, nine others will set things right."

Do you ever pray?

"Always. Every day, every morning, every evening. Often, when I pass by churches or cemeteries, I don't miss the opportunity to say a prayer for my friends who are no longer with us."

In the multimedia studio of the Unione Sarda, Massimo Cellino is a guest on the new program "La voce sarda," with Ambra Pintore, who brilliantly introduces the former president of Cagliari Calcio. The unmissable program will air in a few weeks on Videolina. "President, let's meet again. Can you tell me something for the newspaper?" "Gladly, but can I have a cigarette?" Done.

How much do you miss Cagliari?

"I miss that whole life. I miss Cagliari, what it represented in those years. I miss my youth, the best, yet toughest years of my life, but only fond memories."

Do you miss football after the events in Brescia?

"No. The football we know, the one we went to see our teams in the stadiums for, is gone. The system has collapsed, and those who run the Federation have devastated football. And anyone who stands in their way is overwhelmed and destroyed."

You were president of the Lega Calcio twenty years ago. What has changed?

"Everything. Before, there were presidents, there were owners who represented the football clubs. Today, there are more or less capable managers. There are representatives of funds, some whose origins are unknown, because Italy, unlike England, still allows the income of certain shady funds."

You built a votive chapel in the Brescia sports center. Would you do it again?

"Let's just say I paid dearly for it. They explained to me that the devil is cruel to those who do something important for the Church. I built it because I had made a vow to the Immaculate Conception, in the event of promotion to Serie A. And if I go to Brescia, the first thing I do is go and pray in that chapel. Even though the devil has been cruel to a city where blasphemy is too widespread. Something I have never tolerated."

Did she play soccer?

«Like all of us, but I wasn't a footballer».

You worked for years in the family business, involved in the grain supply chain. Is it easier to navigate the agribusiness or football?

"Let's say they're two things where human values are very present. When you produce something that goes into mass distribution and is a basic necessity, you're close to humanity and must respect the environment and nature. And I think football is a source of example, of education, and of respect for nature and God. And agriculture is a lot like football: you sow and you reap."

She moved to Australia at the age of 22.

They tried to kidnap me on Viale La Plaia, on February 23, 1978, if I remember correctly. I was returning home from the office at SEM. There were three armed men with machine guns drawn. I ran away, and they shot at the car. My father sent me to Australia, moving the whole family out of Sardinia. Only he remained in Sanluri with my mother and my younger brother, Alberto. They practically lived with the Carabinieri in the house.

He stayed in Australia for five years. Did he ever return?

"No, I had such beautiful and happy memories that I didn't want to ruin them. I grew up there, I felt like a man, I understood my values."

At 35, you bought Cagliari from the Orrù family for €16 billion. What motivated you?

"Recklessness. Recklessness, and then our number one competitor in Italy, Franco Ambrosio, owner of Italgrani. Massimo, take Cagliari because Napoli has already signed Fonseca and they don't have the courage to sign his contract . I didn't understand anything about football. We'll buy Cagliari together. Come on, that's 12 billion lire . Shit, all this money. I went to Naples to see president Ferlaino to close the deal: 50.1% for us, 49% for Franco Ambrosio with his real estate company. Then after six months we took over everything."

What prompted you, after 23 seasons, to sell Cagliari to Tommaso Giulini?

"Tommaso Giulini was the only one, with a much lower price than the others, a real one. I have to tell the truth. He won me over with a bottle of whisky. He came to Leeds to visit me and brought me a bottle of Blue Label. I'm sentimental and I like whisky. It was a nice meeting, so I did everything I could to give him Cagliari."

He had had other offers.

There were other buyers, with more money. I already had a deal underway with Qatar, with a representative in Switzerland, who told me , 'We're buying Cagliari, but we're also buying Massimo Cellino, we want you to stay in Cagliari . Buy me Cagliari,' I said, 'but I can't stay because I'm in a very embarrassing situation with the city administration. I'm not a guarantee. No, no, you're staying .' I accepted. But there was a match, Cagliari-Milan, we were winning 1-0. Lopez made a terrible substitution and Milan equalized in the final minutes. They called me and told me to throw Lopez away . 'Why should I send him away? No, no, you have to do it because you're our waiter ,' this guy, an Algerian with a Qatari businessman's mandate, told me. 'I'm no one's waiter, I'm Cagliari's waiter, not your waiter. So, if you want Cagliari, take him, but I'm not staying with you.' Nothing came of it.'

Four championships in Leeds.

I joined a club that was losing £100,000 a day. I would jump in bed at night because I was obsessed with it. In one year I brought it to a loss of £7 million, the next year it broke even, and in the third year it was profitable. I cleaned everything up, paid off all of Leeds' debts. Then I sold it for a little less than I paid for it. English football was a bad game, it was too expensive for me, I didn't have the finances to compete. The truth is, I would have risked getting hurt.

Then the love for Brescia… Can I say love?

No, no, no. I took Brescia because I was initially tempted. I was convinced there was a much more organized club. Having arrived from England, I thought I'd spend one day a month in Brescia. Instead, I realized there were much more debts than they'd declared. There were €12 million in VAT debts, and they asked me for them the day after I arrived. I managed to get promoted to Serie A, then Covid arrived. But above all, there was so much malice, so much evil, I just can't understand it. But it's an evil place. If a club, in 115 years, has spent 10 years in Serie A and 105 in other categories, it's not Massimo Cellino's fault. There's evil in there. Aside from the fact that Brescia's birthday is July 17th. If I'd known, there's no way I'd have bought it.

She repeats on every occasion that she has always paid for everything.

"Always. In 35 years of football, I've paid an average of 50 million a year in salaries."

Therefore, given the events in Brescia, you feel like a victim.

I'm the victim of a series of negative circumstances, with a Sampdoria that shouldn't be relegated because it has €200 million in debt and guarantees from banks and the Federation, which improperly registered it for the championship the previous year. This is the reality. With an accountant from Brescia selling me the shares with a receipt from the Revenue Office, under the federal supervision of Covisoc. And a day before registration, they told me it was all false and that I had to come up with €8 million in 24 hours to register the club, which had been relegated to Serie C. I didn't have them. If I'd known, I would have gotten them, but I didn't have them. I couldn't register the team. That's what they wanted. And that's what happened. If I'd had three more points, Sampdoria would have been relegated and not Brescia. My misfortune was the devil's tail.

In 23 championships at Cagliari, who has remained closest to your heart?

"It's not easy. So many, too many. Mazzone, Gianfranco Matteoli. But so many, Cossu, Daniele Conti. So many, too many, too many, too many."

A big name you would have wanted in rossoblù?

"I'm happy with what I've done. I have no regrets."

Do you ever hear Max Allegri?

"Yes, I hear it. Although I haven't heard much lately, because after what happened to me, my phone rings very rarely."

You have always respected Allegri.

"I think he's still one of the best coaches in the world. His limitation is that he's very provincial, he didn't want to learn English, and he never wanted to compete. He's always taken the easy way out. But I've seen a lot of coaches, and Allegri has something extra."

You broke with politics over the Sant'Elia incident. Is there anything you regret?

"I did everything in good faith and without disrespect, without asking for a penny. I was right, I did it for Cagliari and for what Cagliari meant to the Sardinians. What can I tell you? I can tell you that I found a young Massimo Zedda who perhaps didn't understand Massimo Cellino."

Who knows, today…

"Today, definitely. I was more experienced than him, and to be honest, maybe even the way I present myself to those who don't know me might seem a little haughty. But it's just a way of acting, partly out of shyness. People who don't know me judge me badly, and he didn't know me. He definitely judged me badly."

You and Gigi Riva had different visions of the future of Sant'Elia. Riva wanted to save it.

Completely different. I think Cagliari and Sardinia need a more dignified stadium, one that represents stability for the future. Without precluding the stadium's growth, an expansion, or other projects around it. Starting from the bottom, as my father would have done. I'd start with an investment of a third of what's being discussed, leaving the possibility that Giulini or whoever else might come along in the future could complete it. Too big a step could permanently preclude its completion. Let's not forget that Cagliari plays in a temporary stadium built on a parking lot. It's still my stadium, that one, the one in Quartu. Even the same seats are there.

Why didn't they let her build the stadium in Elmas?

I touched a raw nerve. There was a large loan, with European funds, for the airport expansion. And I, always convinced I was the champion of the Sardinians, Don Quixote, went tilting at windmills and broke my spine. We had bought everything, already paid for, already approved. Do you know how much work the Municipality of Elmas, the Province, and President Cappellacci, whom I knew little or nothing about at the time, worked on it? We were all crushed by national politics. Sardinia lost the stadium, not Massimo Cellino.

Did you know that the construction site to redevelop Is Arenas is about to open in Quartu?

"So. We would have used Is Arenas for a maximum of three years, because either at Sant'Elia or Elmas we would have had a new stadium. And Quartu would have found itself with a truly beautiful facility. The fearful attitude of the Municipality, which had done a great thing for the city, made people think there was something wrong. But there was nothing wrong. And in fact..."

What remains of those difficult days? Buoncammino, Villamassargia.

Look, when I was arrested, I thought it was a joke. It was February 14, 2013. After ten years, I was about to go skiing with my daughter. They rang the bell at my house, these gentlemen showed up, the Forestry Police. They said, ' Mr. President, there's a document for you .' I wasn't wearing glasses, I couldn't even read it. I said to them, 'Do we have any trees to cut down in the garden?' No, read it carefully . I had my wife read it: it was a pre-trial detention order. I went to Buoncammino without handcuffs, constantly turning around to see if there were any cameras from Scherzi a Parte. I'll be honest: these gentlemen were in plain clothes, these guys here, normal guys, they weren't in uniform, nothing. When I found myself in jail, I realized it wasn't a joke. I'm telling you, it was mind-blowing. I only threw away money, but we built a stadium... workers, bricklayers, blacksmiths. A marvelous project, completed in an unthinkable timeframe, because with football you can't just say, "Let's postpone a championship and renovate the stadium." We couldn't play at the Sant'Elia. Do you remember when we played at home in Trieste?

How long did he wait for acquittal?

"First, three months in prison and house arrest, before they released me from Rome because there were no grounds for arrest. Because I didn't do anything. Then I waited eight years for my acquittal. They accused me of illegal construction, which I don't know what that means. But I have to say one thing: I'm not complaining about the justice system, because if I didn't believe in justice, I wouldn't keep paying lawyers to defend me. You see, in the end, even in Cagliari I found a judge who acquitted me. In the first and second instance. We have a convoluted legal system in Italy. But if you're right, I advise everyone, keep going with your head held high, because in the end, if one judge makes a mistake, there are nine who will put things right."

Where does he live?

"In London. I'm a British citizen. Me, my wife, and my daughter. Miami? I sold the house six years ago. I just have a small apartment."

He named a music school after his mother, Fanny Silesu. And the Assemini sports center after his father, Ercole. What was his relationship with them?

I miss my dad, and I still feel him close to me. I had a slightly more conflicted relationship with my mom because, let's say, she was the one who punished me the most. An exemplary mother of five children.

The music.

My mother's uncle, Stanislao Silesu, was a great musician and composer, so she always loved music; she played the piano. Those years at school were wonderful; many kids learned to play and sing. If it hadn't been for that tragedy in Quartu, who knows, maybe we'd still be there, giving concerts.

But does she still play?

«Let's say I still have a room with a few guitars, but I no longer have the time or the desire to pick them up».

You have three children, two boys and a girl. Do you think you were and are a good father to them?

"No. I neglected my children greatly. But on the other hand, they had a good mother, who was very close to them, always lived for them, and always filled in for their father's absence. I have to thank my wife for everything she did."

I asked Max Solinas for a portrait of the former Cagliari president. The photo editor shows up with the official Serie A ball, guarded on his desk, more or less jealously, by Enrico Pilia. That vision lights up Massimo Cellino, who fiddles with it. And the pace of the interview seems to change.

Let's go back to Cagliari. It's true that Carletto Mazzone wanted Schillaci, Klinsmann, Aldo Serena, Van Basten...

" Yess ...

A thought for Fabián O'Neill. He gave her a watch.

"Yes, a Cartier tabletop, I still have it. One of the few gifts. He left too soon. Lopez also went there, to Uruguay, to visit him. We had the roof done on his house. He called me every now and then, after he stopped gambling. I remember when the municipal police were looking for him at the office, because he ran away after an accident. I said to them: 'Oh, damn it, why don't you stop drinking? Mr. President, my father was a borracho, my uncle was a borracho, my brother is a borracho, I am a borracho . Damn, that Irish blood!'"

Two magical feet.

"And a heart of gold. He died in poverty. This madman, even I could barely believe it, had a five-year contract worth €3.8 billion a year at Juventus. He signed one, then went to Perugia, where Juve was paying €3 billion. He cancelled his contract to return to Cagliari. He didn't receive a single euro. And he came here to detox. Ventura played Carrus in his place, and he said, 'I'm going back to Uruguay.' I didn't believe it. He called me from the airport. 'Shut up,' I told him. Unfortunately, he was a non-EU citizen, and they never let him back. He died too, too young."

Did he have his own “tactics” in managing the market?

"I sold footballers well, and do you know why? Because I didn't want to sell them."

There is one mistake he would not repeat.

"I've done a lot. What I wouldn't do again is go and take on Brescia."

What are you most proud of?

«My family, my children, my wife».

Is there a ritual when you come to Cagliari?

"Going out and eating a sausage sandwich in a caddozzone. Like the old days. Guys—actually, they're almost as old as me now—with Cagliari in their hearts."

Are you proud to have left a good memory among Sardinian fans?

I would have liked to give him much more, but we Sardinians have a major flaw: we don't appreciate what we have; we always go to see what others have. If I want to return to Sardinia after spending a lifetime abroad, it's because Sardinia is the most beautiful country in the world, and you don't need money to enjoy it. Going for a swim in Poetto costs nothing. This is a treasure that few have.

Is he still a Cagliari fan?

"Look, when I came to play against Cagliari when we were in Serie A, you didn't understand how bad I was. I suffered like a dog."

Will he stay in the world of football or does he want to detox?

"The football business is over for me, especially in Italy. There's no future for me. Insisting on continuing... I've paid dearly. I like to play at tables where there's no cheating, where there are honest and serious people. There are few serious people left in Italian football. It's full of adventurers and unscrupulous people."

Do you happen to hear from Tommaso Giulini?

I've heard from him in the past. I have to be honest: he wasn't fair to me because of some silly things, League votes. If I tell you, I'll give you my vote, I'll give it to you. If not, I won't. But I have nothing against him. And, to be honest, when I heard some fans complain about Giulini, I took the liberty of defending him because I know what it means to be the president of a football team, I know how difficult it is. From the outside, I can see he's doing somersaults. And I have to say, he's doing well. He's already got his experience and is a sure thing for Cagliari. So, if I don't like him, no one's forcing me to give him my tongue, but I'd think twice before criticizing him. I give him a passing grade.

What is justice for you?

Justice... If you believe in God, you always hope for divine justice. But, damn it, human justice makes you pay on earth, eh? Justice is finding someone who is free in heart and can judge what you've done, regardless of the lawyers you have or the evidence you fabricate. Justice is loyalty, it's looking people in the face and believing in evil and good. I'm not a bad person, and I recognize bad people; I see them immediately. I have this gift, my father passed it on to me. I can really sense negative, bad, evil people. In Sardinia, most are good. There's a lot of ignorance, but there's a lot of goodness. And you don't find that everywhere.

Emanuele Dessì

REPRODUCTION RESERVED