«It would be the end of many things and many lives. I think human wisdom stops these things. Yes, there is the possibility but...". Pope Francis has a moment's hesitation, during the interview with Tg1 director Gian Marco Chiocci which aired last night, in admitting his fears of a global escalation of the conflict in the Middle East .

«This war affects us because of what it means Israel, Palestine, the Holy Land, Jerusalem but Ukraine also affects us because it is close - he observes -. But there are many other wars that do not affect us : Kivu, Yemen, Myanmar with the Rohingya who are martyrs. The world is at war but the arms industry is behind it." « Every war is a defeat . Nothing is solved with war. Nothing. Everything is gained with peace, with dialogue", reiterates the Pontiff, warning that "two peoples who must live together. With that wise solution: two peoples, two states. The Oslo agreement: two very limited states and Jerusalem with a special status."

Francis says he calls the religious remaining in Gaza every day - "for the moment, thank God, the Israeli forces respect that parish" - but his alarm is also different: " Unfortunately, anti-Semitism remains hidden ". «It is not always enough to see the Holocaust they committed in the Second World War – he specifies –, these six million killed, enslaved and it has not passed. Unfortunately, it didn't pass."

The interview also touches on the war in Ukraine, "a martyr people" . He also recalls that he would have liked to go to both Kiev and Moscow, and reveals: «I had a good conversation with the Russian embassy. When I presented prisoners, I went there and they freed them, they also freed them from Azov. In short, the embassy behaved very well in freeing the people who could be freed."

Among the other topics covered, the fact that "Europe must show solidarity" with the countries where migrants land - Cyprus, Greece, Malta, Italy and Spain -, "these five countries cannot take everyone and the governments of Europe must enter into dialogue."

Or that in the Church there will be more and more space for the role of women , but regarding ordinations "there is a theological problem". As regards priestly celibacy, "it is a law that can be removed, there is no problem" , but "I don't think it helps. Because the problem is another. It doesn't help" to overcome the vocations crisis. On the subject of homosexuals , the Pope says that «the Church receives people, everyone and does not ask what you are like . Another thing is when there are organizations that want to come in. The principle is this: the Church receives all those who can be baptized. Organizations cannot be baptized. People do."

On pedophilia, then, "a lot has been done, but there is still a lot to do".

There is also space for personal aspects and for the "private" Pope. The most difficult moment of the Pontificate "when I had to take action against the Syrian war". In the post-Bergoglio Church, the finger is pointed at the "backwards" Francis also says that he does not feel like "a left-wing Pope" : "The real qualifications are: is he coherent, is he not coherent?".

He then announces that he will go to Dubai from 1 to 3 December for the COP28 on climate.

He remembers being at the seaside for the last time in 1975. And he also remembers his girlfriend before taking his vows : «A very good girl. He worked in the cinema . It was good. Then the archbishop of Rosario found her in a parish with her husband and children."

When asked about his health he replies: "Still alive." Then, surprisingly, the answer on football and, as an Argentine, on who he prefers between Maradona and Messi: " I'll say a third, Pelé ."

(Unioneonline/vl)

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