«Only the other half of the sky will be able to give a future to our agriculture»

How are you, Gavino Ledda?

“I had a bad flu. But okay, come on."

What should I call it? Professor, master, Gavino?

"Gavino is fine."

Can we talk to you?

"Yes, yes".

We meet Gavino Ledda in his home in Siligo, the head of a mouflon carved in trachyte on the arch that dominates the entrance. The fireplace is lit in front of an orderly (or maybe not) chaotic environment. There is also a piano. But more on that later.

Ever been tempted by politics? Siligo is the town of Cossiga. Maria Carta was a city councilor in Rome with Berlinguer.

«No, the others tempted me. I was born a writer. I remained illiterate until I was twenty. But, the day my father took me out of school after not even a month of first grade, I said to myself: when you're twenty, you'll start from this day. And so I did. I wanted to become a writer. And I succeeded. Well, they had asked me to run for the Chamber of Deputies with the PCI. I refused. Either you're a writer or you're a politician. The writer must really write as it should be written. As Giacomo Leopardi wrote in his poems».

It's time for women, in politics, in Italy. We got there late, also thinking about the role of women in Sardinia.

«The woman had the central role in the domestic walls, at home. The matriarchy has only been at home. And in bed. I add to bed because this way at least we emphasize well. I am neither macho nor feminist. I am a man who must be a man. And nature has given some skills to the male and others to the female».

It is such a time for women that, many complain, we are "crippling" the Italian language.

“We have to accept a linguistic concept. A name, a noun, which has never existed in the Italian language, I can't introduce today because it's convenient for us. We will see in the future. There are some euphonies that the soul of the speaker cannot accept. Giorgia Meloni is a woman. And he is the president of the Council of Ministers. Not the president."

Giorgia Meloni has already said it.

“And indeed you are right about that. It may be that he's right about other things too, that's for sure."

You wrote a book, the fourth, in 1991, "Aurum Tellus", which, a few months ago, won the "Cesare Pavese" prize. After 31 years.

«Just like when I made the film "Ybris", in 1982, and it took me five years to make it, I touched points that they dreamed of and still dream of touching them. Because it takes courage to touch them and a good head. I'm not bragging, mind you. You see “Ybris” and then… It's been banned. Rai had the merit of producing it, then I had to ask for funding to do it a little better. But I, you know, have a dignity of my own so I don't want to ask. However, there are two works, “Ybris” and “Aurum Tellus”, which when they were made were at least seventy years ahead of schedule. It was fortunate that Carlo Ossola noticed it and even said we couldn't do without it when he presented me with the prize in Santo Stefano Belbo. A double pride, because Carlo Ossola is the flag of Italian language and literature in the world. And I'm not saying it."

How did your book come about?

«Thanks to the publisher Scheiwiller, who sent him a copy in '91. Then they met again at the Book Fair when “The Trials of the Lamb” came out in 1995, which anticipated what I could do next. Once Scheiwiller died I was penalized a lot, because I missed the publisher, the serious publisher, I mean».

Do you mind if we take a trip to your childhood between Siligo and Baddhevrustana?

"No".

You stayed there fifteen years. What did you miss the most?

«In the early days the mother. Like lamb, right? As soon as he is weaned what does he miss? The milk. But also the company, the affection of the mother. And so I had to invent it. In bad luck, luck, because every now and then I had a new mother. Once the water, the fire, the sun. I ended up having more mothers than any child ever had. I have lived this. It's not like I'm building it now with you."

And when did your revenge with the school begin?

"Revenge? It's not that I wanted to challenge… I am someone who, like moufflons, when they fight, fight to win. “Padre Padrone” is a victory, “Ybris” is another victory, “Aurum Tellus” yet another. “The trials of the lamb”… But I would still like to win».

When you left in the military you didn't know how to read and write .

“They had to teach me the alphabet. I had managed to write just a few vowels in those twenty days in first grade. I did four years in the Army. I had to leave as a volunteer to escape from my father. To escape! Not like Cecco Angiolieri… if I were dead, I'd go to my father; if I were life I would run away from him. Cecco Angiolieri was a spendthrift. I couldn't allow it. But I had to study. In '58 I left. And, ironically, they sent me to Siena, the heart of the Italian language. I spoke only in Sardinian. They called me mambrucco, moron. Slowly, slowly."

How long did you recover?

«In ten years I graduated from the Sapienza University of Rome. Middle school in Pisa, high school in Ozieri. Then as a private first and second high school in Sassari and then the high school diploma ».

In 1975 you wrote "Padre Signore".

«No, in 1975 I finished writing... I lived in via Farina, in Cagliari. I was already a university assistant».

Win the Viareggio Prize. Why, in your opinion?

"I couldn't not win. Today we can say it because the people decreed it. "Padre Signore" is a book sold as if it had come out yesterday. In Germany…".

Translated into forty languages.

"Yes, even more. But forty is fine, because the others never told me."

I read from "Padre Padre": «My father's presence silenced us and made us silent. Me and nature. And everyone withdrew into the shell of their own silence». Was the figure of Abraham so cumbersome? Or were you in awe?

«Nature, which was my mother, when my father came, silenced her too. Of course, it happened that nature made fun of my father… Nature is nature. I would have liked to review this book. But I don't think nature or history will let me do that, because it takes time. Take "Padre Signore" and go over it again. I should pray that Jesus Christ will make me live as long as my father, almost a hundred years old, and with his health».

The description of sexual intercourse with sheep in that book cost you the indignation of many Sardinians too. repented?

«No…But then the Sardinians…».

Someone said: "Ledda has ruined the image of Sardinia".

“I was so convinced of what I did, of the truth of these things, that it was, how can I say, a poetic confession that I had to make, that it was part of the story. Just as it is part of Sardinian history and of the human world, unfortunately, that many fathers have taken advantage of their daughter. I would like to write a book about this. And then the feminicides. Another book I would like to write. But I won't do it."

"Padre Padre" becomes a film and the Taviani brothers win the Palme d'Or at the Cannes Film Festival. It was 1977 .

“That Palme d'Or is more mine than theirs. Initially the film disappointed me. Then, having seen it again, last year, calmly, in the Marches, where I had taken a holiday, they screened it in front of me and the public, all in all, the Taviani brothers didn't do me such serious damage . Except that they should have called it Father master and Gavino Ledda. Or at least Gavino. Because Father master was there. In the book and out. And there still is. But there was also Gavino. Gavino Ledda. You will say, it's just a title. But a title is a huge suggestion».

I pick up “Lingua di Falce”, Feltrinelli 1978 edition (it comes from the boundless library of my colleague Massimiliano Rais). Gavino Ledda gets curious.

"It's the first edition."

I read: «In my naivety I regretted that Sardinian could not have become that international language that, perhaps, it had been when, towards the second millennium BC, our ships traded throughout the western Mediterranean which, in fact, was called the Sardinian sea» . Do you still have this regret?

“I'm getting over it, but I've got it. Unfortunately, I spent too much time studying Sardinian. Forty years old. And I didn't write. I could have written another twenty books. In spite of this common limba, may God save us and deliver us».

You taught at the University of Cagliari.

«Sardinian Linguistics and Romance Philology for three years».

How was the relationship with the students?

«With the students it was perfect. Less with the professors».

Maybe your ego was bulky and your colleagues…

"Can be. What bothered me the most was that they said whose are you? Whose-are you? It drove me crazy. I am of myself. I'm not even from Abramo Ledda, just imagine".

Fifteen years between Baddhevrustana and Siligo. Why, the moment you set sail, did you feel the need to come back here?

«How was I able to study Sardinian? In New York I couldn't. I had to go back. I armed myself in quotation marks with all the books by Max Leopold Wagner, the Sardinian language vocabulary, Sardinian phonetics. But this helped me for a new discovery, the word electromagnetic. Let me explain: I'm trying to fill a gap that starts from the battle of Cornus ( on the coast today of Cuglieri, ed ) with the Sardinians led by Amsicora against the Romans of General Tito Manlio Torquato. Twelve thousand dead. Sardinian was born from there».

Electromagnetic word, we said.

«I define Sardinian as the language of ipse. Sardinian is only in the Romance languages in the ipse language. The others are in the ille language. In French “le” comes from ille. Ipse, as a third person pronoun… Do you remember when you translated the Latin versions? No one has ever investigated this but, psycholinguistically, without bothering anyone, I don't need to. If there were ever Freud he would give me a hand, maybe, understood. The language of ipse is different from the language of ille. Or not? I want to transfer this ispity to Italian and it becomes the first electromagnetic cell. What is Electromagnetism? It is nothing but the path along a filament of electrons and, at 90 degrees, there is magnetism around it, almost as if electricity had two souls. One that goes this way and one that goes in a spiral. 360 degrees in all directions. As electrons travel through a wire, magnetism is created in all directions of the wire. Electromagnetism. Simultaneously".

Ever felt the need to start a family?

«Let's say it happened, but I was unlucky. The baby died. Muscular dystrophy. I got desperate, I almost had a kind of intimate complex, as if it was my fault. It was 1987. I still carry this wound on me».

And then?

“And then I never found her again. I've had adventures, but adventure is adventure. Unless Jesus Christ still sends you a story that… I am alone and this loneliness is starting to make itself felt. When I'm happy I fill it with writing, and it's a good thing. But in the moments when the muse leaves me, these problems arise».

What is the thing you like most about your day?

«When I'm in muse and I write. I have a canvas in my head, but when I sit down and write, it's being born there».

Gavino, your passions. The music?

"Yes, the music. There is this cell in “Padre Padore” as well. The first fire, the spark, was the accordion».

Do you play the piano?

«I play it, but I'm still only doing the theoretical part. The teacher has been coming for three years. Let's just say I'm a little behind."

Football?

«When the national team plays. Brothers of Italy! Mameli's anthem is fine».

Do you have TV at home?

"There it is."

Of course, sorry, it was behind my back. And the relationship with the web? With social media?

“Only when I need something. Maybe then you find out that it's written by an artificial brain. Which suits me to know how many times Garibaldi fell before arriving in Teano. Maybe he knows. However…".

Do you have your own social media profile?

“I have nothing, on purpose. Only that others wear it».

Why can't there be young people willing to work in the countryside?

“Women, in this case, should demonstrate that they are truly female, not feminists. Females. Take the men and say let's go to the countryside with the sheep. Only then does the male go there. I miss the female, to say, no. The partner, let's say. Now, I am convinced that agriculture and the earth will be occupied again by man if even half of the sky goes to the countryside. Point and boh! Su mascu no bandada in the countryside, because there is a female in the city».

What advice would you give to a young man, perhaps a graduate and with the family business, who has doubts about a future with livestock and land?

«Without female, cussu, he goes to Casteddu . We need women. The matriarchy on the clods of the earth must be transferred. Only women, the women of the 3000s can save agriculture. Because the male no bandada... the male is a ram. Why did my father take my mother to the countryside at some point? Because he wanted the female. He was able to do another fifteen years in the countryside, my father. So I say feminas sardas e de su mundu… su trigu , the grain, dies. That's the concept. From here I would get a book, me, a book».

No one had ever given me this answer.

"No one can give it to you. Fortunately, I am free. They would be ashamed to confess it. I am not ashamed. We need to transfer the matriarchy to the countryside. This has never been done. Maybe when agriculture was invented, in the fertile moon, who knows if it was a woman who planted the first seed. From the domestic walls sa femina must pigare su mascu, well… you coddu in the countryside. I coddu you in sa pinnetta . Or up nuraghe . Everything is here."

Can I write it?

" And then isn't it?" But you have to write it well in Campidanese. It's a joke, sure. But here is everything. Fortunately, women also go to be astronauts. But agriculture is our future».

Your relationship with the campaign has never stopped.

«The first plant in my botanical garden is from the 1980s».

Baddhevrustana?

“I bought closer to the village. Baddhevrustana in 1978 was already rented, it was no longer ours. They wouldn't have sold it to me, I think, I don't know.'

You would like a "Padre Padre" station in Siligo.

"The dream, especially after my father's death in 2007. I tried to create an association called Eurena, which means Europe".

You bought your father's house.

"I redeemed everything from my brothers."

How many brothers do you have?

"Five more."

Are they all alive?

"No, a sister is missing."

I'm re-reading "Father Master". I arrived here…

"Halfway".

In half. Give a good reason to read or re-read it.

«First of all because it is a book that does not age, because there is no caesura between living and writing. “Padre Padrone” is an only child. only begotten. I wrote it between '70 and '75'. But I had it in my body from Baddhevrustana. From the day my father took me with him in 1945».

What do you remember today... 84 springs, right?

"Eighty-four".

What do you remember of your father Abraham? And was there a moment when you realized that?

«Long before writing the book I had already digested everything, even the wrongs he had done me. Because that was the culture, that was the story. Well, it was up to me to change. And I changed."

And in any case without Abramo Ledda there would have been no Gavino.

«Abramo Ledda had made the ram, eh. You will say, without rams there would be no lambs. It belongs to the lamb.'

It all starts with dad taking you away from school.

«Everything comes from the ram! Why read it, you said. Because this is not the first book that is not artificial. There isn't this caesura, this void, this capedine. It is the extension from action to writing. Others I don't know, not even one. Perhaps Dante's "Divine Comedy", in the sense that Hell is also an extension of his life. I am earthly. Or telluric. If a Martian comes to write a novel on earth he is a Martian. This book is terrestrial, it is telluric. The other books I know are all… Yes, some gems are saved. Maybe Leopards, something should be saved... and the hen,
back up the street, which repeats its verse, it is seeing it, of course. He lived that cell. We'll save them all, though, come on."

How much do you devote to reading?

“No, I can't read the others. Because having invented an electromagnetic word I can't afford to read the others. I can hardly read myself.'

Do you read the newspapers?

Yes, the newspapers do. But often only the titles».

What do you see in your future?

«I would like to write at least another three or four books to complete and give vent to these hard-earned studies on linguistics. Two-faced tongue, in Sardinian and in Italian».

And which Sardinian? Your?

«No, it's not mine, it's the Sardinian that I had to create glottologically by believing, thinking and concluding that Sardinian was born after the battle of Cornus. And the one that most closely resembles that language is Logudorese. But even in Casteddu tuu they spoke - if you look at the documents in the archiepiscopal archive of Cagliari - Logudorese Sardinian. Almost nine hundred years ago. Then there was the influence of the Pisans, the Spaniards, the Piedmontese..."

Someone brought your name close to the Nobel Prize for Literature. What effect does it have?

«From the point of view of the elecubration, of the effort, of the sweat shed on linguistic studies and on the yearning and breath and breath and blow that my father and mother gave me for poetry and for writing, it would be an acknowledgment I think correct. And if Stockholm hasn't thought about it yet, it has plenty of time to think about it. I would be very pleased and I think not only of me. You tell me people talk about it. It is a lament that you have collected. Because people know that when I graduated in Rome in 1969, not a man did. Nuraghe graduated. Also".